PAULFROMNYS

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Based on Malachi 3:16-18 I believe the Lord will harken to us as we consider his word together.

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Romans 4   New Testament

Started Aug-31 by PAULFROMNYS; 154 views.
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-2

PAULFROMNYS said:

That choosing is a circumcised heart elected of GOD for the purpose desired by GOD. 

What shall we say that Abraham our father has found? In the beginning he was neither a man of faith or obedience.

Rather that obey to come out from his country, his relatives, and his father's house, he took Lot. (Genesis 12:1,5)

He went down to Egypt twice. This is a type of going to the world when things get difficult.

Through the exercise of the flesh, he produced Ishmael.

Abraham's faith was progressive.

In Genesis 15:6 he believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. This is objective justification. This means that because Jesus died for our sins, we are justified before God objectively, outwardly, even though we have not changed at all.

After this, in chapter 16, through the works of the flesh,  Abram produced Ishmael of Hagar.

After a 13 year gap, God appeared again to Abram in chapter 17. In this chapter Abram becomes Abraham and he is circumcised. This is subjective justification. This means that not only is Abram justified in an outward, objective way, but he himself has become a different person, his flesh has been removed (signified by circumcision) and he can now be joined to God to bring forth Christ (Isaac is a type of Christ.)

Therefore, Romans 4:22 is speaking of objective justification.

Romans 4:25 is speaking of subjective justification. 

Romans 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.

Salvation is not simply to be forgiven of our sins, salvation is to have Christ formed in us.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

This is what Abraham out father has found.

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-2

   Fred said:  In Genesis 15:6 he believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. This is objective justification. This means that because Jesus died for our sins, we are justified before God objectively, outwardly, even though we have not changed at all.

   Paul replied:  I think more perfectly he, as are all in that mind; was availed of the reality of:  John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:   From that beginning comes deep eternal change in us.   It is an instantaneous and powerful moment is it not? And are not our souls affected accordingly?  That we maintain that heart of our first love is key to any maturity in Christ forthcoming.

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-2

PAULFROMNYS said:

 John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become

Because we are objectively justified before God, declared to be righteous through the death of Christ, we are able to receive Him. Those who receive Him have the power, the authority, to become children of God. The word here in Greek is teknon, which means children. The Greek word for sons is huios. 

We have this authority because we have received His life and nature. 

I am trying to have this discussion with brother James on another thread, begotten sons vs. adopted sons. 

"Become" also denotes a process, like that which Abraham went through.

Romans 7:4 So then, my brothers, you also have been made dead to the law through the body of Christ so that you might be joined to another, to Him who has been raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit to God.

The joining here is not a legal joining, but an organic joining, a union in life. Therefore it is an organic union. Think grafting. When Abraham was circumcised, meaning the removal of the flesh, the old man,  he was joined to another, to God to bear fruit to God in the form of Isaac. This story signifies our salvation through the Person and work of Christ. 

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-6

    Fred said:  The joining here is not a legal joining, but an organic joining, a union in life. Therefore it is an organic union. Think grafting. When Abraham was circumcised, meaning the removal of the flesh, the old man,  he was joined to another, to God to bear fruit to God in the form of Isaac. This story signifies our salvation through the Person and work of Christ. 

   Paul replied:   Amen, the hinge out of natural responses to GOD into GOD in Christ is:  John 11:40  Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

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