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Gun Control Debate -  Gun control and police defunding (698 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
From: EdGlaze DelphiPlus Member Icon6/29/20 10:14 AM 
To: All  (11 of 29) 
 2132.11 in reply to 2132.10 

Political Cartoons by Michael Ramirez


Criminal justice reform should include decriminalizing the Second Amendment
by Cam Edwards
25 Jun 20

We seem to be caught in a moment somewhere between reform or revolution. Change policing and the criminal justice system via legislation, or the angry mob will do to the nation what it did to the statue of anti-slavery hero Hans Christian Heg and Senate Democrat Tim Carpenter in Madison, Wisconsin the other night. While I believe in the right of revolution, I can’t imagine a less inspiring group of Americans to follow into battle than the useful idiots and fellow travelers who’ve fallen in line behind Marxist rebels without a clue in trying to start one, each single statue or busted up Starbucks at a time.

So, I’m on team reform, broadly speaking, though I certainly don’t support every measure that’s been tossed into the political arena lately. I’ve written before about my objections to no-knock raids, support for body cameras, and other policing reforms. On the other hand, I don’t support bail reforms that automatically let many individuals back out on the street after they’ve been charged with violent offenses.

I’m seeing a little more talk about the idea of reforming plea bargains these days and I’m glad to see it. Every day on Bearing Arms’ Cam & Co I have a segment called the Recidivist Report (formerly the Deal of the Day, as in “plea deal”) highlighting a sweetheart of a deal offered to a criminal defendant.

Today, for example, I highlighted the case of 21-year old Divine Hill of Gastonia, North Carolina, who was charged back in February with attempted first degree murder after firing at least six shots into an occupied home. Earlier this week, Hill accepted a guilty plea in the case.

During an appearance on Monday, June 22 before Gaston County Superior Court Judge David Phillips, Hill agreed to plead guilty to one count of discharging a weapon into occupied property.

In exchange for the plea, prosecutor Chad Smith agreed to dismiss the attempted first-degree murder and felony conspiracy charges.

Phillips sentenced Hill to between 20 and 36 months in prison, but agreed to suspend the sentence on the condition Hill undergo supervised probation for 30 months.

Hill, who had no prior convictions, was credited with the 81 days he’s spent in jail awaiting his court date. He was represented by Gastonia attorney David Hoyle.

So basically, what prosecutors originally described as attempted first degree murder will be punished with less than three months of jail time. Even taking into account the fact that Hill doesn’t have any previous convictions, doesn’t that seem awfully light for shooting off six rounds into an occupied home? And there are no shortage of stories like this, unfortunately. I’ve found multiple examples every weekday for more than fifteen years of hosting Cam & Co.


  • Edited June 30, 2020 9:32 am  by  EdGlaze

From: EdGlaze DelphiPlus Member Icon6/29/20 10:15 AM 
To: All  (12 of 29) 
 2132.12 in reply to 2132.11 

Meanwhile, gun control advocates like Joe Biden are hoping to empower states to implement New York-style gun licensing laws, which, unless they too are plea bargained away, can send people to prison for years for simply possessing an unlicensed firearm in public. It’s ridiculous to send people to prison for simply having a gun when we’re handing out probationary sentences to people who try to kill someone with one.

The flip side of under-sentencing is overcharging, where prosecutors through every possible charge at a defendant and then offer them a plea bargain, saving the time and expense of a trial, but at the cost of the Sixth Amendment right to a trial by jury and potentially coercing defendants into accepting a plea bargain because of the potentially lengthy sentence they would receive if convicted of all charges at a trial. You’ll almost certainly get guilty parties to take that plea, but more and more voices in the legal system, including a number of judges, are acknowledging that innocent people plead guilty too, overwhelmed by the prospect of spending a good chunk of their life in prison for a crime they didn’t commit. An unbelievable 97% of felony cases in this country are resolved via a plea bargain, and the results show that the system is open to be abused in many ways.

When gun owners say that we need to focus on enforcing existing laws, this is exactly what we’re talking about. Stop using public safety as the excuse to push criminal penalties for things like owning a 20-round magazine. Quit making it impossible for the average person to legally own and carry a firearm through exorbitant fees and using discretionary policies that allow for denials even though they’re not prohibited by law from owning a firearm. These policies actually create illegal gun possession cases in high crime neighborhoods, as people decide it’s better to be judged by twelve than carried by six and carry a firearm illegally, though only for self-defense. What’s considered a protected right in most places is considered a felony offense in some of our biggest cities.

Gun control laws create gun crimes. They take a legal activity and impose criminal sanctions on it, sending people to prison for doing something that was perfectly legal a day earlier, and in fact is probably still legal in a neighboring state. Despite their public embrace of policing and criminal justice reform, gun control advocates (including Joe Biden) have a laundry list of new, non-violent crimes that they want to be enforced by armed agents of the State and prosecutors in a court of law.

While the criminal justice system is proving itself incapable of taking seriously someone who nearly killed a woman, Biden’s embraced the Bloomberg model of state laws that put people in prison for simply carrying a firearm without a license. Here’s another problem: these offenses are also likely to be plea bargained down, with repeat offenders and those with long criminal histories still receiving plea deals on a regular basis in New York City. Adding more laws to a broken system only increases its dysfunction, yet that’s exactly what Biden and most Democrats want to do, because it’s a fundamental part of the gun control movement.

Reforming the criminal justice system should include rejecting that agenda, as well as taking existing dumb, non-violent offenses off the books entirely. Start to rebuild a culture that respects and embraces our Second Amendment rights, after decades of attempts to de-normalize gun ownership among in urban areas and among racial minority groups. It’s time to re-normalize gun ownership in these cities, along with the responsibility that comes with exercising your rights.

If cities want to spend millions on “violence interruptors,” that’s fine, but they should cough up some coin to educate young residents about their Second Amendment rights and responsibilities, and push campaigns to promote opportunities for training and education. Embrace gun ranges, encourage competitive shooting, and the re-establishment of a culture of responsible gun ownership.

Enacting these reforms would free up space in the criminal justice system, reduce plea bargains, redirect law enforcement resources to violent offenders, while offering an opportunity to empower more Americans to exercise their constitutional rights. They’re measures that will save lives, make neighborhoods safer places, and respect the constitutional rights of all Americans. And as long as the gun control movement has their way, we’ll never see any of them enacted.



defund the politicians graffitti

  • Edited September 6, 2020 8:07 pm  by  EdGlaze

From: EdGlaze DelphiPlus Member Icon7/11/20 3:59 PM 
To: All  (13 of 29) 
 2132.13 in reply to 2132.12 

board same people defund police said dont need guns because of police


From: EdGlaze DelphiPlus Member Icon7/13/20 8:25 AM 
To: All  (14 of 29) 
 2132.14 in reply to 2132.13 

Cop critics won't like these results
A recent survey found majority of American adults believe
being a police officer is one of this country’s most important jobs.

by Dave Workman
American Handgunner Magazine

A recent Rasmussen survey let some air out of the windbags who have been demanding defunding or dissolution of police agencies, revealing that 63% of American adults believe being a police officer is one of the nation’s most important professions.


Sixty-four percent are worried that “growing criticism” of police may result in a shortage of lawmen and women, and, thus, reduce public safety.

In addition, the survey, which was taken among 1,000 adults from June 21-23, produced a real stunner — more blacks (67%) are concerned about public safety where they reside than are whites (63%) and 65% of other minority Americans.

Perhaps not surprisingly, more men than women think being a police officer is one of the country’s most important jobs. More than 60% of both men and women are concerned about local public safety if criticism of police continues.

Another non-surprise is that 52% of Democrats think being a cop is an important American job, while 82% of Republicans and 60% of Independents think law enforcement is an important profession in the U.S.

This survey occurred in the middle of what appeared to be a national surge — at least among protesters — to take funds from police and even disband police departments. Rasmussen’s poll, which had a +/- 3%-point sampling error, found people under age 40 “are the most critical of the police but are still worried about public safety if there’s a shortage of police officers.”

What does that tell us? Simply put, people who sneer at cops still want them to arrive like the cavalry to save them from peril.


D.C. Cops Consider Quitting

Underscoring the Rasmussen survey is a report from WTTG-Fox 5 that a recent survey by the District of Columbia Police Union discovered a whopping 71% of its 600 polled members are thinking about leaving the force.

Their reason? So-called “reforms” proposed by the D.C. Council “have presented ‘negative impacts on the working conditions of police officers,’” according to the report.

The survey also revealed 96% believe crime will rise in the district and 88% think officer safety will decline if the new policies are adopted.

Chief Peter Newsham and a jaw-dropping 98.7%also think the District council “forgot about our 20 years of reform and…insulted us by insinuating that we are in need of reform.”

The more likely scenario is that the council didn’t forget anything, they just needed a headline at the expense of police officers to show they were trying to serve the public.



  • Edited July 13, 2020 8:39 am  by  EdGlaze

From: EdGlaze DelphiPlus Member Icon8/9/20 5:32 PM 
To: All  (15 of 29) 
 2132.15 in reply to 2132.14 

I would laugh at this if it wasn’t for the potential violent crime that will bring.
6 June 20

Online a group from Minneapolis (of course) made their recommendations and they are either insane, stupid or both. here they are [with emphasis on some]:

10 Action Ideas for Building a Police-Free Future

1. An easy one: STOP calling the police when it’s clearly unnecessary.
We can’t tell you to never call the police (though some do make that choice). We can challenge you, however, to reflect on that choice, to make sure that calling them isn’t an automatic response to each and every moment of personal discomfort or uncertainty. Never forget: an inconvenience for one person, once police are involved, can become a death sentence for another person.

2. Get trained in first aid, crisis de-escalation, restorative justice, etc.
The more skills we have to share with our neighbors and family, the less we have to rely on unaccountable armed paramilitary forces! Find or organize local trainings, and share that knowledge.

3. Build community all the time, not just in times of trouble.
It isn’t just about building capacity as individuals; it’s about cultivating resilient communities. One of the first steps we can take toward communities that no longer need police is meeting one another. We can know our neighbor’s names. We can hold potlucks, volunteer to help our neighbors with simple things like shoveling snow or carrying groceries, and build real relationships. That way, when crises happen, we have other resources to call upon besides the police.

As Critical Resistance’s Abolitionist Toolkit puts it: It can be as simple as asking a friend a basic question: “If I needed to, could I call you?” or telling someone “If you ever needed someone, you could call me.” We know that this is nothing like a perfect solution. But we have to begin to try out what solutions might work, especially because know that calling the police doesn’t.

4. If you DO need police, go to them instead of calling them to you.
From the zine, “12 Things to Do Instead of Calling the Cops:” If something of yours is stolen and you need to file a report for insurance or other purposes, consider going to the police station instead of bringing cops into your community. You may inadvertently be putting someone in your neighborhood at risk.

5. With mental health crises, remember to center the person in crisis.
From the article “5 Ways to Help Someone in a Mental Health Emergency Without Calling the Police” (Tastrom):

Remember that the person having the mental health crisis is a person and their wishes should be followed as much as is safe. The best intervention strategies will be things that the person buys into and does voluntarily. Those of us with mental health issues have likely been traumatized by doctors and other practitioners not listening to us or doing things against our will. All of this is contextual and there are no absolutes, but think about trauma when you are considering what actions to take.


  • Edited August 9, 2020 6:04 pm  by  EdGlaze

From: EdGlaze DelphiPlus Member Icon8/9/20 5:33 PM 
To: All  (16 of 29) 
 2132.16 in reply to 2132.15 

6. Make a list of local services/hotlines you can call instead of the police.
From domestic abuse crisis centers, to shelters for people experiencing homelessness, to mental health support groups, to a range of other kinds of advocates and service-providers, find the people who can deal with the kinds of crises that police so often are not equipped to handle. Find out which ones involve the police as a matter of protocol, and which ones don’t. Hang the list on your refrigerator. Keep those contacts in your phone. Make copies and give them to friends and neighbors.

7. Support organizations that really do keep our communities healthy.
On that note: where these services exist, support them, whether by volunteering, donating, or lobbying for funding from city/county/etc. government. Some great alternatives to the police already exist; they’re just often extremely underfunded. Take this a step further: how might we strategically re-allocate resources from police to services that truly help people? Campaigns to divest from police while investing in communities may offer a path forward.

8. Zoom in and find solutions where you are.
Across the country, activists are finding ways to change the narrative and do this work. Teachers and parents are working on campaigns like Dignity in Schools’ “Counselors Not Cops.” LGBTQ groups are disinviting police to Pride parades. Formerly-incarcerated people are organizing networks of mentorship and even unarmed community mediation teams. Organizations like the Sex Workers Outreach Project are working to address stigma and criminalization. Churches are pledging to not call the police. From the decriminalization of drugs, to the dismantling of the school-to-prison pipeline, to abolishing ICE, and beyond — every step gets us closer to a police-free future.

9. Engage in policy work that can prevent, rather than just punish, crime.
When we ask people “what keeps your community healthy and safe?” the answers we hear are often very similar: affordable housing, jobs, youth programs, opportunities to create and experience art, welcoming parks, etc. We can cultivate safer and healthier neighborhoods by getting involved in activist organizations, neighborhood groups, school boards, etc. that have the power to do this preventative work.

10. Dream bigger: there was a time before police, and there will be a time after.
Some of the solutions we need don’t exist yet. There are some things we can do now, but this work is also about planting seeds. A vital first step toward a police-free future is simply being able to visualize what that future will look like. We must break out of the old mindset that police are this inevitable, irreplaceable part of society. They aren’t. There are better ways for us to keep our communities healthy and safe, ways that do not include the violent, oppressive, unaccountable baggage of police forces. Check out the various sources mentioned here. Do more research, have more conversations, and help build the world in which you want to live.


I do want this instituted in Minneapolis ASAP. I am not alone wanting to see what kind of Mad Max world it turns out to be. The body count will be amazing, maybe Third World worthy.


  • Edited August 9, 2020 6:06 pm  by  EdGlaze

From: EdGlaze DelphiPlus Member Icon8/10/20 11:08 AM 
To: All  (17 of 29) 
 2132.17 in reply to 2132.16 




  • Edited August 10, 2020 11:16 am  by  EdGlaze

From: EdGlaze DelphiPlus Member Icon8/17/20 5:31 PM 
To: All  (18 of 29) 
 2132.18 in reply to 2132.17 

via e-mail:

Recently, the Chula Vista, California Police Department ran an e-mail forum (a question and answer exchange) with the topic being, "Community Policing."

One of the civilian e-mail participants posed the following question, "I would like to know how it is possible for police officers to continually harass people and get away with it?"

From the "other side" (the law enforcement side) Sgt. Bennett, obviously a cop with a sense of humor replied:

"First of all, let me tell you this…it's not easy. In Chula Vista, we average one cop for every 600 people. Only about 60% of those cops are on general duty (or what you might refer to as "patrol") where we do most of our harassing. The rest are in non-harassing departments that do not allow them contact with the day to day innocents. At any given moment, only one-fifth of the 60% patrollers are on duty and available for harassing people while the rest are off duty. So roughly, one cop is responsible for harassing about 5,000 residents. When you toss in the commercial business, and tourist locations that attract people from other areas, sometimes you have a situation where a single cop is responsible for harassing 10,000 or more people a day.

Now, your average ten-hour shift runs 36,000 seconds long. This gives a cop one second to harass a person, and then only three-fourths of a second to eat a donut AND then find a new person to harass. This is not an easy task. To be honest, most cops are not up to this challenge day in and day out. It is just too tiring. What we do is utilize some tools to help us narrow down those people which we can realistically harass.

The tools available to us are as follows:

PHONE: People will call us up and point out things that cause us to focus on a person for special harassment. "My neighbor is beating his wife" is a code phrase used often. This means we'll come out and give somebody some special harassment. Another popular one: "There's a guy breaking into a house." The harassment team is then put into action.

CARS: We have special cops assigned to harass people who drive. They like to harass the drivers of fast cars, cars with no insurance or no driver's licenses and the like. It's lots of fun when you pick them out of traffic for nothing more obvious than running a red light. Sometimes you get to really heap the harassment on when you find they have drugs in the car, they are drunk, or have an outstanding warrant on file.

RUNNERS: Some people take off running just at the sight of a police officer. Nothing is quite as satisfying as running after them like a beagle on the scent of a bunny. When you catch them you can harass them for hours.

STATUTES: When we don't have PHONES or CARS and have nothing better to do, there are actually books that give us ideas for reasons to harass folks. They are called "Statutes"; Criminal Codes, Motor Vehicle Codes, etc… They all spell out all sorts of things for which you can really mess with people. After you read the statute, you can just drive around for a while until you find someone violating one of these listed offenses and harass them. Just last week I saw a guy trying to steal a car. Well, there's this book we have that says that's not allowed. That meant I got permission to harass this guy. It's a really cool system that we've set up, and it works pretty well. We seem to have a never-ending supply of folks to harass. And we get away with it. Why? Because for the good citizens who pay the tab, we try to keep the streets safe for them, and they pay us to "harass" some people.

Next time you are in my town, give me the old "single finger wave." That's another one of those codes. It means, "You can't harass me." It's one of our favorites.


From: EdGlaze DelphiPlus Member Icon8/19/20 8:03 PM 
To: All  (19 of 29) 
 2132.19 in reply to 2132.18 


2020 DNC platform states millions of people have 'good reason' to fear being killed by the police;
reaction from OutKick's Jason Whitlock.


From: EdGlaze DelphiPlus Member Icon8/19/20 10:08 PM 
To: All  (20 of 29) 
 2132.20 in reply to 2132.19 

Chicago Officers Retiring at a Rapid Pace
by E. Jason Wambsgans / Chicago Tribune / TNS
19 Aug 20

Chicago police officers have been retiring at more than double the normal rate, with 59 officers retiring in August and another 51 in September, compared to the average of about 24 retirements per month 

The rapid pace of retirement by Chicago police officers is raising concerns among department officials that the number of new hires won't keep pace.

Chicago police officers have been retiring at more than double the normal rate, with 59 officers retiring in August and another 51 in September, compared to the average of about 24 retirements per month, according to WGN-TV.



Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 7 President John Catanzara told the news station he noticed the rise in retirees after the unrest and rioting began in the city.

"I'm surprised they’re not higher to be honest with you," he said. "It was pretty obvious right away, May 29 and 30 specifically."

While he said the change in health insurance benefits may be a factor, he placed a lot of the blame on Mayor Lori Lightfoot, noting that officers have been working without a contract for three years.

"It just goes to show the lack of respect the mayor and these attorneys have for the men and women; it’s all fluff when they say they care but they really don’t," Catanzara said, adding that he doesn’t blame members for retiring in the current environment.

"It’s not worth the attacks, physically, the exhaustion, mentally, and just the lack of appreciation as a whole for the profession."


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