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From: ButchkingOct-7 3:41 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (10 of 54) 
 39847.10 in reply to 39847.9 

I say that you should believe whatever you think is right.

 
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From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-7 4:22 PM 
To: Butchking  (11 of 54) 
 39847.11 in reply to 39847.10 

I say that you should believe whatever you think is right.

bob>We believe based on what we know so far, as we learn more our understanding and beliefs change. We should believe what is right, but many times we hold to something that we THINK is right, but further study may prove wrong. We must be careful what we believe, we must be certain of what we "know"


 

 

 
From: RickT1962 (sthnreb1)Oct-8 11:34 AM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (12 of 54) 
 39847.12 in reply to 39847.1 

Christ was talking to his disciples.  They are part of the 144,000 that will rule and judge with him.  When they die, they are immediately transformed as Christ was to the spirit realm.  The rest of us die and as the Bible says at Gen. 3:19: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Eccl. 9:10: “All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [“the grave,” KJ, Kx; “the world of the dead,” TEV], the place to which you are going.”
What is the condition of the dead?
Eccl. 9:5: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.”
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts [“thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “all his thinking,” NE; “plans,” RS, NAB] do perish.”  We are retained in God's memory for a Resurrection of both good and bad to be judged.  Otherwise, there would have been no sacrifice for sins.  BTW- Jesus is the son of God.  John 3:16.

 

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-9 10:01 AM 
To: RickT1962 (sthnreb1)  (13 of 54) 
 39847.13 in reply to 39847.12 

Christ was talking to his disciples.  They are part of the 144,000 that will rule and judge with him. 

bob>Who are the other 144000?

When they die, they are immediately transformed as Christ was to the spirit realm. 

bob>When will judgement start, when will they die? 

The rest of us die and as the Bible says at Gen. 3:19: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Eccl. 9:10: “All that your hand finds to do, do with our very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [“the grave,” KJ, Kx; “the world of the dead,” TEV], the place to which you are going.”
What is the condition of the dead?
Eccl. 9:5: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.”
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts [“thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “all his thinking,” NE; “plans,” RS, NAB] do perish.”  We are retained in God's memory for a Resurrection of both good and bad to be judged.  Otherwise, there would have been no sacrifice for sins.  BTW- Jesus is the son of God.  John 3:16.

bob>So, all that die before the second coming will lay in the grave, also called paradise, am I right? 

 

 


 

 

 
From: RickT1962 (sthnreb1)Oct-9 3:02 PM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (14 of 54) 
 39847.14 in reply to 39847.13 

Christ was talking to his disciples.  They are part of the 144,000 that will rule and judge with him. 

bob>Who are the other 144000?  Rev: 7 After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, so that no wind could blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise, having a seal of the living God; and he called with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”

4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5 Out of the tribe of Judah 12,000 sealed;

out of the tribe of Reu'ben 12,000;

out of the tribe of Gad 12,000;

6 out of the tribe of Ash'er 12,000;

out of the tribe of Naph'ta·li 12,000;

out of the tribe of Ma·nas'seh 12,000;

7 out of the tribe of Sim'e·on 12,000;

out of the tribe of Le'vi 12,000;

out of the tribe of Is'sa·char 12,000;

8 out of the tribe of Zeb'u·lun 12,000;

out of the tribe of Joseph 12,000;

out of the tribe of Benjamin 12,000 sealed.

 

When they die, they are immediately transformed as Christ was to the spirit realm. The 144,000, yes.  Everyone else in the grave as the Bible says.

bob>When will judgement start, when will they die? The 144,000 are taken from all people of the world, beginning with the disciples.  They die at different times, not all at once.  The Bible describes events and conditions that mark this significant time period. “The sign” is a composite one made up of many evidences; thus its fulfillment requires that all aspects of the sign be clearly in evidence during one generation. The various aspects of the sign are recorded at Matthew chapters 24, 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21; there are further details at 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 2 Peter 3:3, 4, and Revelation 6:1-8.  The rest of us die and as the Bible says at Gen. 3:19: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”  Eccl. 9:10: “All that your hand finds to do, do with our very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [“the grave,” KJ, Kx; “the world of the dead,” TEV], the place to which you are going.”
What is the condition of the dead?
Eccl. 9:5: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.”
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts [“thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “all his thinking,” NE; “plans,” RS, NAB] do perish.”  We are retained in God's memory for a Resurrection of both good and bad to be judged.  Otherwise, there would have been no sacrifice for sins.  BTW- Jesus is the son of God.  John 3:16.  Matt. 25:31, 32, 46: “When the Son of man [Jesus Christ] arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And these [who fail to recognize Christ’s spiritual brothers as representatives of the King himself] will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”  The end of the present global system will come, not as a result of indiscriminate slaughter in nuclear war, but in a great tribulation that includes “the war of the great day of God the Almighty.” (Rev. 16:14, 16) That war will not destroy the earth, nor will it bring all mankind to ruin.

Matt. 24:21, 22: “Then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.” (So some “flesh,” some of humankind, will survive.)

Prov. 2:21, 22: “The upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.”

Ps. 37:29, 34: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it. Hope in Jehovah and keep his way, and he will exalt you to take possession of the earth. When the wicked ones are cut off, you will see it.”

Why does God allow so much time to pass before destroying the wicked?

2 Pet. 3:9: “Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.”

Mark 13:10: “In all the nations the good news has to be preached first.”

Matt. 25:31, 32, 46: “When the Son of man [Jesus Christ] arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And these [who fail to recognize Christ’s spiritual brothers as representatives of the King himself] will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”  Of the last day and exact time, no one knows, not the angels or Christ, only the one true God.

bob>So, all that die before the second coming will lay in the grave, also called paradise, am I right? The grave is not paradise.  There is no visible coming as only spirit can enter heaven.  No rapture as most teach.  Jesus said your eyes will behold me no more. 

 

 

 

 
From: Ginger (TGANNON) DelphiPlus Member IconOct-9 5:57 PM 
To: RickT1962 (sthnreb1)  (15 of 54) 
 39847.15 in reply to 39847.14 

Are you a Jehovah Witness?

 

 

 

     

Psalm119:105 "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path"

 

 
From: RickT1962 (sthnreb1)Oct-9 8:53 PM 
To: Ginger (TGANNON) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (16 of 54) 
 39847.16 in reply to 39847.15 

No.  And not a trinitarian either.  And you are what?

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-10 9:22 AM 
To: RickT1962 (sthnreb1)  (17 of 54) 
 39847.17 in reply to 39847.14 

Christ was talking to his disciples.  They are part of the 144,000 that will rule and judge with him. 

bob>Who are the other 144000?  Rev: 7 After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, so that no wind could blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise, having a seal of the living God; and he called with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”

4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

5 Out of the tribe of Judah 12,000 sealed;

out of the tribe of Reu'ben 12,000;

out of the tribe of Gad 12,000;

6 out of the tribe of Ash'er 12,000;

out of the tribe of Naph'ta·li 12,000;

out of the tribe of Ma·nas'seh 12,000;

7 out of the tribe of Sim'e·on 12,000;

out of the tribe of Le'vi 12,000;

out of the tribe of Is'sa·char 12,000;

8 out of the tribe of Zeb'u·lun 12,000;

out of the tribe of Joseph 12,000;

out of the tribe of Benjamin 12,000 sealed.

 

When they die, they are immediately transformed as Christ was to the spirit realm. The 144,000, yes.  Everyone else in the grave as the Bible says.

bob>?So they are all from Jewish tribes, they are all Jews seems to be what it's saying, right?

bob>When will judgement start, when will they die? The 144,000 are taken from all people of the world, beginning with the disciples.

bob>>The passage says 12000 from each tribe, Jewish tribe. 

  They die at different times, not all at once.  The Bible describes events and conditions that mark this significant time period. “The sign” is a composite one made up of many evidences; thus its fulfillment requires that all aspects of the sign be clearly in evidence during one generation. The various aspects of the sign are recorded at Matthew chapters 24, 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21; there are further details at 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 2 Peter 3:3, 4, and Revelation 6:1-8.  The rest of us die and as the Bible says at Gen. 3:19: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”  Eccl. 9:10: “All that your hand finds to do, do with our very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [“the grave,” KJ, Kx; “the world of the dead,” TEV], the place to which you are going.”
What is the condition of the dead?
Eccl. 9:5: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.”
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts [“thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “all his thinking,” NE; “plans,” RS, NAB] do perish.”  We are retained in God's memory for a Resurrection of both good and bad to be judged.  Otherwise, there would have been no sacrifice for sins.  BTW- Jesus is the son of God.  John 3:16.  Matt. 25:31, 32, 46: “When the Son of man [Jesus Christ] arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And these [who fail to recognize Christ’s spiritual brothers as representatives of the King himself] will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”  The end of the present global system will come, not as a result of indiscriminate slaughter in nuclear war, but in a great tribulation that includes “the war of the great day of God the Almighty.” (Rev. 16:14, 16) That war will not destroy the earth, nor will it bring all mankind to ruin.

Matt. 24:21, 22: “Then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of
...[Message truncated]


 

 

 
From: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-10 9:22 AM 
To: Len - Spiritest_25_77 (Spiritest_24)  (18 of 54) 
 39847.18 in reply to 39847.14 

bump it's end times things and you know much more than I about these things. 


 

 

 
From: RickT1962 (sthnreb1)Oct-10 10:14 AM 
To: Bob (Bobbylee7) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (19 of 54) 
 39847.19 in reply to 39847.17 

Concerning a trinity, the Bible says at Matt. 24:36--36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.  If God is a trinity and Jesus is God, why does he not know the time?  And, if Jesus was God in the flesh, then why does the Holy Spirit not know, only God the Father?  Actually, if Jesus is God, he never really died.  Thus no sacrifice for sins.  I'm looking for the trinity to be explained to me?  Can you help?

 

 

 
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