Religion -  Ungodly abuse (182 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
From: Meta (DigYourGig) Posted by hostFeb-7 1:04 PM 
To: All  (1 of 8) 

"Deeply religious organizations are great places for pedophiles to hide. The culture of silence was built into the training. Do not gossip, do not speak about anything that doesn't edify. It's just a recipe for abuse."


From: Knotpicky (RUTA)Feb-7 1:43 PM 
To: Meta (DigYourGig)  (2 of 8) 
 47846.2 in reply to 47846.1 

It's sickening, and so is the culture of silence to protect the pedophiles.


From: RGoss99Feb-7 5:18 PM 
To: Meta (DigYourGig)  (3 of 8) 
 47846.3 in reply to 47846.1 

Much better then sports, schools, Scouts etc. because so much of the religious message is based on sex, the religious practioners proportionally spend more time talking about sex, which Christ never mentioned, then all the rest of his message.

I went to Catholic schools, where we had a presession in September, which included a religious retreat. Like all the dirty little pervs in our class we could hardly wait as the priest went through the decalogue, for him to get to the sixth commandment, which BTW also makes no specific reference to sex either, but that seems to be the more prominant of the two vague sources for the sermons on sex. If the priest could only have bugged our conversations during and after this lecture, he would see not only how out of touch he was, but realize that for kids of that age, his lecture was basicly a turn on.

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From: RGoss99Feb-7 5:20 PM 
To: Knotpicky (RUTA)  (4 of 8) 
 47846.4 in reply to 47846.2 

But that silene is not the only problem. How about the silence in the curriculum which reduses sex education to plumbing.


From: Knotpicky (RUTA)Feb-7 6:23 PM 
To: RGoss99  (5 of 8) 
 47846.5 in reply to 47846.4 

Good point. And that sex education silence is driven by religious right-wingers, at least here in Texas it is. Granted, however, that sex education is a delicate topic no matter how it's presented outside of the anatomical plumbing. Delicate for parents as well as for schools.


From: RGoss99Feb-7 9:40 PM 
To: Knotpicky (RUTA)  (6 of 8) 
 47846.6 in reply to 47846.5 

Of courseit sex has probably always been a delicate topic for parents from no matter what part of the U.S. The openness here on such topics took some getting used to. For example the word "shit" in my family has never been a trigger for getting my mouth washed out with soap. But here all the prohibited words, both in translation and in English are quite commmon even in the mouths of preschoolers. Another American problem is that the culture is still medieval when it comes to word magic, so knowledge of a word in the U.S. often carries the concept of guilt, even though most 4 letter forbidden words, don´t even refer to their implied sexual meaning. So the use, or non use of them, is more a measure of class, then wickedness. Here is exmple of what would translate back into English as a bad word, "taco". So, because I like Mexican food, and like to cook, I serve do it yourself tacos, older more polite ladies refer to them as Mexican crepes. Here the most common use of the word in semipolite conversations, is as an adjective, describing a crude person who is "potty mouthed" using low class slang to define various bodily functions. A lot of common expressions here do not translate well. As I mentioned many of our cultural activities are prechristian absorbed into christianity as it moved into Europe (marketing in the present sense). With Luther´s reformation, in thory, though not true (all non scriptural elements were chucked) but until after Franco died, we had no Protestant presence here so these elements are still with us, where they have been separated from the church and tidied up in Protestant cultures. an example of this is that all municipalities have pair of giants (4m tall) who dance, take the mayor to church, and are potectors of the village, and usually live in the lobby of the city hall. In England they have become the supporters of the shields. So the Queen´s arms are supported by a lion and a unicorn. These were never real animals, they were people dressed as such, the equivalent of our giants. Two examples of what would not go over well are the "caganer" and "castellera". For the former our christmas scenes are similar to those in the U.S. with on exception. in that we have an extra character we have a little guy in the squatting with his pants own, dressed as a peasant or a shepherd, taking a dump (caganer=shitter as in caca). This is a prechristian tradition with a valid message still. The Christmas scene is traditionally at the west end of the church where the eastern end has the altar or focal point of worship. the message is that if Jesus came to earth as a man, and was born poor, what is all that gold and glory doing at the east end. So having the caganer puts a different perspective on the triumphalism displayed in most churches, as God does not need glory, but human are attracted to it. In both pagan structures and Ffeud the simble of a male is a tower, and for a female a door because it is through a oman tha the human passes from one diminsion to the other- A perfect exaple of this is at UCB, where the Sather family donated money for the campus, Mr Sather gave the bell tower, and Mrs Sther provided Sather Gate. Sp the Eguptian obelisk is basicly a penis, and, Italian nobles used to brag about how their tower was bigger then his neighbors. Castellera started as part of a ritual fertility dance building human towers, eventually like many examples of folklore and magic ended up after the reformation as a children´s game, but was revived in the 19c as a sport. As a result there are about 150 teams between Valencia and Catalunya North which now part of France. We have competitions, and exhibitions (Day after tomorrow for example, for Chinese New Years) As a sport we get public money in excange for so many exhibitions and competitions per year (amounts to about 50,000€ per year for my team, which pays for our club house, and because we are an island with only two teams, we have to go by boat or plane to most competitions, while those on the contenent have competitions as a day trip. The sexual aspect shows up in the first phase of the competition, called a "pilar caminant" - basicly a walking penis, and as our kids start taking English at about age 2-5-3, they often shock Americans and Brits when they refer t it as a "walking penis" Exhibitions are shorter then competitions, and the teams are often hired for weddigs,where they build the "pilar caminant" at the back of the church then walk it to the bridal couple at the front and then precede them out after the service. As these are particularly dangerous, some competitions skip the other types of castells, and just have this as the competition, which means more teams, doing less castells. The clip is rather long, so I will give you a time setting to get the picture without having to watch the entire thing. Before I post it an aside, we don´t have the same hangups as Brits and Americans regarding sex and bodily functions. kids deck change at the pool for swimming classes, and when my team was on another island for a competition in a village so small there was no hotel we were given cots in a gym. but where in America the gym lobby has two doors to the side saying boys and girls, here it was home and visitor, out of politeness most men using the urinal usually zip up before turning around. for this clip for the short version start around point 20:30.

Note that they don´t speak Spanish here either, not that it matters as the visuals pretty much say what is happending.

Speaking of racial vs racism, you will notice the flags with variations are gold with 4 red striipes. This is racist triumphalism because the first King of the Aragón state, had to marrry the king of the aragon´s daughter, and to get her hand he had to kill a Muslim king. Before this happened his shield was simply gold,, when he dumped the dead Muslim´s body before the old king, that king put is hand inside the dead Muslim´s chest, and drew the 4 red stripes with his 4 bloody fingers on the new king´s coat. Just a myth, but definitely racist. Aside: there are about 150 teams, primer league "castells" higher then 7 levels, minor league 7 or less. My team made major around 2006 and are now around 28th rank in the majors. Both the island teams have done 8 in practice, but we are the only one to have done it in competition.


From: Knotpicky (RUTA)Feb-8 12:10 AM 
To: RGoss99  (7 of 8) 
 47846.7 in reply to 47846.6 

Interesting. Do you know if the "potty mouth" tendency is all over Europe, or mainly in the southern nations? Having lived in the US for most of my life, I don't have much memory of European traditions, Baltic in my case.

As in Spain, pagan traditions were incorporated into Christianity way back when, like the 13th century. So we (Latvians) have the midsummer festival and such. No creche or nativity scene in my Latvian Lutheran church, just the horizontal wreath hanging from the ceiling with the 4 candles to light, one for each week of Advent. No "caganer" there.

I have noticed that Europeans are much more casual about clothing, or lack thereof. Where in the US some people get all bent out of shape at the sight of a mother breast-feeding (good grief, that's the purpose of breasts!), in Europe it's normal. Similar reactions to nude beaches. Something in US culture about Puritanism or staying in the Victorian Era. <g>


From: RGoss99Feb-8 5:43 AM 
To: Knotpicky (RUTA)  (8 of 8) 
 47846.8 in reply to 47846.7 

Yes, I think it is a Latin-Nordic language-cultural thing. But here is a related phenomena thing. Our "Nordic" tourists, tend to go overboard in reverse, as those tourists from the most puritical and arepressive societies in the north, are more likely to go to excess in the opposite direction here. Take our village pool for examples, young local kids, girls even into puberty will use the pool topless or not and no one notices. But most tend to wear coservative bathing suits and because of the sun, many girls wear t-shirts over their bathing suits. But, although not a tourist village, we are a mixed population which includes some Germans and Rumanians who have guests in he summer. So if a young woman is at the pool in the summer in a thong bikine, so small that from behind it looks as if she is wearing no bottom, chances are that she is a German or Rumanian. We have dinner concerts in our main street on Sunday evenings in summer. If a woman is wearing a dress so thin that one ccould read the label on her panties, she is obviously a tourist. 

Prostitution here is legal, licensed, tax paying, inspected. Well private and club prostitution is, street prostitution is not. But if it was not for the Americans, Brits, or Germans, the clubs would go out of business. We have the same drinking laws as most countries, but they are not enforced, because the culture stresses social responsibility over rights. During the winter, my local has live music on Thursday nights, usually lasting about 2 hours. One night, I kept a talley. Few tourists all locals in winter, no on had more then two drinks during a typical conceert, alcohol mainly wine or beer, but these were outnumbered by those drinking coffee, juice, soft drinks, or designer water. Since our "token" drunk died last year I have not seen any drunks, except occasionally teens during our week long patronal festival, but not even them were guttered. Whereas in the tourist areas, which we call the "ghetto" lots of alcohol, drugs, and inappropriate behavior - Megaluf comes to mind, mostly British people on package tours - which basicly sell bad behavior as part of the package in Britain. Ironicly when things get out of hand, the conservatives blame prostitutes. How can they tell the difference when British girl tourists are giving public BJs in the streets and bars,


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