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Will get you a Covid-19 vaccine if it’s mandatory?   The Healthy You: Health and Fitness Polls

Started Sep-23 by Showtalk; 9005 views.
Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Dec-27

Would it be artificial if it occurs organically?

If a designed plan to choose which individuals get to reproduce due to specific desired characteristics, as opposed to the same effect happening due to predators or such, then it would be artificial selection even though it's still organic. The mutations are due to natural forces - usually subatomic particles hitting a specific DNA section in a gamete, and occasionally that mutation is beneficial. So if someone spots that change and then selectively breeds that organism, it's an artificial selection of an organic change.

Thus we get, over enough generations, dogs that will fit in your purse (and bark and growl furiously and bite your ankles) and other selected mutant dogs over generations that can pull a sleigh and survive running around in -50 weather with snowdrifts and stay warm and cozy.

Or the same with plants - we can select wild grasses that produce bigger seed pods that can be ground into better tasting flour to make more nutritious bread, and then deliberately cultivate those, over thousands of years selecting the mutations that produce bigger yields of the grain until in the modern era that specific mutant is planted by the square mile with highly mechanized means and we produce tens of thousands of pounds of grain per acre, instead of a small amount of tiny seeds from the grass that made up its ancestors.

Corn is actually a highly mutated form of grass. So is wheat. So is barley and rye. For that matter, bamboo and sugarcane are all species of grass. Out of artificially selected organisms, I think mankind has done this most extensively with various grass species to turn them into cultivated crops for food (various grains) and construction material (e.g. bamboo)

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Jan-16

Human designed natural selection. Not even an oxymoron.

The distinction is - human activity doing the selection for a specific desired trait of the organism, versus an advantageous mutation in the wild that gives the organism a better survival skill - maybe less susceptible to a disease, better able to fend off predators, or more efficient at catching prey. Or even more efficient at extracting nutrients from eating things most other competing species can't. If it was in the wild, then it's natural selection.

So an animal with slightly longer tusks, making it more attractive to a potential mate, will likely reproduce more often, so the next and subsequent generations keep getting longer tusks. This happened for a long time with the African elephant, as a type of natural selection.

Then as more and more people using modern weapons began to kill elephants for their ivory, these large tusks became a survival disadvantage due to artificial selection. Poachers were far more likely to kill large bull elephants with large tusks, while tusk-less mutants and those with very small tusks were less likely to be hunted.

In only a few short decades, elephants with large tusks have practically vanished, and most baby elephants born these days either develop no tusks or very small tusks compared to elephants a century ago.

This was due to man-caused, or artificial selection, as bull elephants with no tusks became the surviving males to be able to impregnate females.

Artificial selection is observable in humans as well. This can be seen in men of British descent to this day. During two world wars, most of the fit young men joined the army or navy and went off to war. These wars killed a huge number of these young men, removing the genes for traits specifically desired for military service from the gene pool in disproportionate numbers.

A young British man with flat feet, with shorter than normal stature, or a variety of other physical conditions that tended to disqualify one from military service, had a much higher probability of living through the war and thus of producing offspring, as their competitors were buried on various battlefields.

As a result, the distribution of various physical traits among many British men to this day favor those deemed unfit for military service in those past wars, precisely because their ancestors, having been rejected for military service, survived to reproduce with far less competition from those who went into military service and then died on various battlefields.

This kind of selection can be seen in populations all around the world where many near genocidal wars were fought in the past few centuries.

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Jan-18

And ours seems to be natural selection for a lot of unusual traits and behaviors showing up in the young.  The ability to do everything with a phone glued to their faces.  

It could also be a de-selection at work, as those technologies have not really been that conducive to successful procreation. Actually the social media sites and various other places have poisoned the whole social interaction process of forming actual physical relationships.

So they might be interacting a lot digitally, maybe even emotionally in the equivalent of a relationship, maybe even an intense one, but that doesn't produce offspring.

Throw in the $50k student loan debt with massive underemployment, or cobbling together enough income from 3 part time jobs to pay 1/5 of the rent of a place with 4 other roommates, and flopping into bed exhausted, to repeat again the next day - is not a lifestyle conducive to successful reproduction either.

So what's probably at work is a dysgenics phase that will last for a few decade of steep depopulation in the developed world, during which they will be displaced by other peoples who are not caught up in that kind of treadmill, such as immigrants from the Third World.

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Jan-28

...Who then have children who grow up to be very different from their own parents. 

Oh, definitely. I know a few younger geek types from India, who have grown up very, very different from their parents.

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Feb-13

Most of us probably did grow up different from our parents, not just people from any one country.

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