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Missouri woman didn't want COVID-19 vaccine. She caught Delta variant and died.   The Serious You: How Current Events Affect You

Started Jul-5 by $1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S); 4458 views.
Showtalk said:

Each body reacts differently. I may have posted I spoke to a real medical researcher who tested his own blood and found 100% immunity. So a majority are probably fully immune, at least until a booster is needed.

Yep.

Immunity rises sharply immediately after vaccination, and peaks a few days to weeks afterwards. Then it slowly decays over time.

Eventually the immune response falls below the threshold to become unable to be infected at a high viral exposure, then we need a booster to finally re-stimulate the immune system, because it's like a garrison duty where when the enemy does not appear, the soldiers become less and less ready for the attack when it comes.

A booster shot is like a new feint attack, which looks like the real thing, to mobilize the troops and give them appropriate targets for live-fire practice that look exactly like an enemy invasion.

Showtalk said:

Missouri has very low vaccination rates.

Missouri is also way behind on a lot of other things from the perspective of the modern world.

It's not surprising to read that they have low vaccination rates.

WALTER784

From: WALTER784

Jul-9

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

Immunity rises sharply immediately after vaccination, and peaks a few days to weeks afterwards. Then it slowly decays over time.

Eventually the immune response falls below the threshold to become unable to be infected at a high viral exposure, then we need a booster to finally re-stimulate the immune system, because it's like a garrison duty where when the enemy does not appear, the soldiers become less and less ready for the attack when it comes.

A booster shot is like a new feint attack, which looks like the real thing, to mobilize the troops and give them appropriate targets for live-fire practice that look exactly like an enemy invasion.

And what about those who got COVID-19, recovered on their own with only mild or no symptoms?

They actually had this "supposedly dreaded" virus and fully recovered. And don't bring up those with long term after effects because I'm not talking about them... I'm talking about those who fully recovered with no long term after effects. Are they just as immune or perhaps even more immune than those who were vaccinated? And to they need a booster shot even if they never had the vaccination?

It's unanswered questions like this that I find appalling to say the least... very simple questions, answers should be readily available, but where are those readily available stats when you want them?

I heard you're the walking dictionary around here so do you have any answers?

FWIW

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk

Jul-9

There will be new hysteria around the booster.  This is like the flu shot.  I know someone who had one shot and still got the flu and will never get another.  She also hasn’t had a Covid vaccine but she has had Covid.  Or the shingles shot.  Someone who refuses to get one and then gets shingles suddenly wants the shot.  It’s only recommended for over age 65, but I have a friend who got shingles so badly at age 52 she thought she was going to die.  Once it went away, almost a year later, she got the shot.

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk

Jul-9

Yes, there are people who have mild cases and then have full immunity. Great! That means less chance to give someone else around them a bad case.  What they need to do is figure out why they got milder cases. Maybe it’s due to diet or something else in their lives.  I heard it may be related to blood type. Whatever it is, there are reasons,we just don’t know what they are.  All we are doing here is speculating, or having a mild argument.  But it’s up to the real research scientists to figure it out.

WALTER784 said:

And what about those who got COVID-19, recovered on their own with only mild or no symptoms?

They won the lottery.

And just like the lottery, there are winners and there are losers. If you get a winning ticket, you beat the odds.

Most of the time you get a losing ticket. With the lottery you are only out whatever you paid for that scratch-and-lose ticket, or not getting any of the Powerball numbers correct.

When you get Covid-19 it is kind of like you didn't really intend to enter that lottery in the first place but now you're positive and you won't know until it runs its course whether you are going to just lose a little, if you're just going to lose enough you can recover from, or if you're gonna lose everything forever.

It's like Nancy Pelosi's health care bill - you gotta pass it to find out what's in it. Covid, you gotta catch it to find out just how bad or easy you're gonna get it.

Meanwhile, in other over-reaction hysteria, Australia is just insanely off the deep end.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/australia-left-thousands-of-citizens-stranded-abroad-in-the-pandemic-but-it-let-the-french-rugby-team-in/ar-AALTSQA

Yep. People don't understand probability and statistics. If I'd had it and a mild case, I'd still get the shot because the most likely worst case scenario is it's redundant. But they don't know how long immunity lasts after you have fought it off. The common cold, for example, mutates fast enough that you can keep getting new strains of it year after year. The same is with influenza.

They also don't know for certain if it lurks in the body long after you've recovered, maybe not in a contagious form (or only mildly contagious) and might flare up again years or decades later like shingles when that childhood case of the chicken pox (herpes zoster) makes a comeback.

When dealing with a new virus there are going to be a lot of unknowns and statistical outliers for many years to come.

Generally, vaccine is far less of a risk than catching the disease itself, whether it was smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, or so many other diseases that scythed through populations on a regular basis.

i have a relative who is about as skeptical of anything that comes from the far left as you can be - she's 83 years old now. Guess who got her covid shot as soon as available? Yep. She did. Because, as she put it, she will never forget the era of row upon row of kids who had gotten polio, being in iron lungs so they could breathe.

Almost no one alive today has ever had one degree of separation or less from a case of polio. Modern doctors likely will never see a case in their entire career in medicine. It is because of widespread vaccination.

However, adherents to the pseudoscience of people like Jenny McCarthy, by not getting routine vaccinations, are producing a growing pool of available people who can become infected if exposed and spread their diseases like wildfire among those kind of people.

And of course many forget the bits of history when the Europeans first arrived in the New World. The reason the later Conquistadors found very little resistance to invasion / colonization of the Americas was the very first explorers had brought with them an invisible biological agent with them to which the native Americans had little if any resistance (as opposed to immunity) to. These invisibly spread from person to person well beyond the original asymptomatic and mildly asymptomatic carriers' initial contact, a messenger of death far more devastating than any musket or sword.

By the 1520s, disease had completely wiped out many ancient settlements, the full extent of was not known until the extensive use of LIDAR aboard various aircraft and spacecraft combined with Big Data number crunching finally could digitally peel back the jungles and reveal vast cities and trade routes that had been reclaimed by nature centuries ago when the original populations were wiped out.

So once again new discoveries are having to add entire new chapters to the history books.

As far as Covid goes, we were incredibly lucky. With global travel and trade in a matter of hours to days, the next new mutation and outbreak will spread just as fast, and it might be a lot more lethal. We probably won't be so lucky.

Picture a likely case - a mutation of, say, Lassa or Marburg or Ebola which has a much longer asymptomatic contagious interval before the full horrors of those symptoms appear. Patient Zero, somewhere deep in the Congo or Zaire or somewhere, passes it to maybe 2 or 3 per day.

Let's put the infection rate at about 3. Let's put the asymptomatic contagion window at about 21 days. So someone catches this new "andromeda strain" and now has 3 whole weeks to spread virus everywhere before he gets a fever, then it liquefies his innards so by the time he dies he's mostly turned to bloody goo.

By this time there are about 3 to the 21st power potential cases already there. We are looking at theoretically 10,460,353,203 people infected before the first patient even gets sick.

With only about 7 billion on the planet, and some people unable to infect as many while others are super-spreaders, there will be some pockets uninfected and some with a natural resistance who don't get that seriously ill among the population. But, it would have the potential for an extinction level event. Borders would be sealed, lockdowns everywhere, but it would be like closing the corral gate after the horses are already gone.

Now let's roll it back to only an infection rate of 2. Each person gives it to 2 other people. Let's assume they are contagious only 1 day after being exposed, but don't develop symptoms for a week.

So they would result in 127 infections by the time Patient Zero started getting sick. Most of those, at least 64 or so infected on day 6, would be going about their business while doctors were baffled at the new sick patient.

If this happens among the poor first, there might be a huge death count before any medical professional even sees a case. Difficulty to access affordable high quality health care is going to exacerbate the severity and speed of spread of any disease outbreak.

Now let's say at least some of those are back in the good old USA. They go shopping at WalMart and Target. They give it to dozens of people there.

Some of those go to big gatherings. The rest go to school and work like they have to. By the time people start getting really sick, the disease has already had a 7 day head start and about 127 to 128 new infections that won't be sick for another week.

So let's say it takes a full week before anyone even notices and 2 weeks before real alarm gets spread far and wide. That's 65,535 infections. After 4 weeks, that potentially has become 4.7 billion.

So with Covid, we were incredibly lucky. We probably won't be as lucky next time.

WALTER784

From: WALTER784

Jul-10

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

They won the lottery.

And just like the lottery, there are winners and there are losers. If you get a winning ticket, you beat the odds.

Most of the time you get a losing ticket. With the lottery you are only out whatever you paid for that scratch-and-lose ticket, or not getting any of the Powerball numbers correct.

When you get Covid-19 it is kind of like you didn't really intend to enter that lottery in the first place but now you're positive and you won't know until it runs its course whether you are going to just lose a little, if you're just going to lose enough you can recover from, or if you're gonna lose everything forever.

Well, with the lottery, you have one winner and all the rest are losers. With COVID, 99.8% are winners and only 0.2% are losers! So you cannot really compare it to the lottery as the greater majority are all winners with only a few losers. So looking at 0.2%, which is one fifth of 1%, sounds like just about everybody's a winners. Thus bad analogy! Unless you want to equivocate the one who died with the one who won the lottery... then... yes... you would see a similarity. But that's the exact opposite of what you were talking about.

Did you see this?

Rona Forever: Pfizer Seeking Approval for 3rd Coronavirus Vaccine Dose

Pfizer is ready to seek U.S. authorization for a third dose of its coronavirus vaccine, outlining Thursday a top up shot within 12 months could dramatically boost immunity and counter any virus mutant.

Pfizer’s Dr. Mikael Dolsten told the Associated Press early data from the company’s booster study suggests people’s antibody levels rise five- to 10-fold after a third dose, compared to their second dose months earlier.

In April, Pfizer flagged plans to ask the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for emergency authorization of a third dose, as Breitbart News reported.

“We believe that the third dose will raise the antibody response 10- to 20- fold,” Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said at the time, likening it to the annual flu shot.

“Every year, you need to go to get your flu vaccine,” Bourla said. “It’s going to be the same with COVID. In a year, you will have to go and get your annual shot for Covid to be protected.”

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2021/07/09/rona-forever-pfizer-seeking-approval-for-3rd-coronavirus-vaccine-dose/

And then a 4th and 5th and 6th... arrrrrggggggg?!?!?!?! Will it ever end?

FWIW

WALTER784

From: WALTER784

Jul-10

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

Yep. People don't understand probability and statistics.

I'm one person among those people whom you're referring... and I majored in mathematics... in particular, I took analytical calculus in my 3rd year of high school. So I do understand probability and statistics quite well.

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

But they don't know how long immunity lasts after you have fought it off.

And they don't know a lot of other things either... like what the long term effects of getting the vaccination might cause. And like you said, we may not know that for some time.

At present, the FDA has not approved COVID-19 vaccination for the general populace. It's still considered an "experimental" and/or "emergency" vaccination. And they won't be able to fully approve it until a few more years!

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

The common cold, for example, mutates fast enough that you can keep getting new strains of it year after year. The same is with influenza.

Yep. And over the past 8 years I know close to a dozen people who regularly get their yearly influenza shots and yet get the influenza 3 or 4 times during that same 8 years as well. I've worked with those who got it... in the same meeting rooms, sitting right across the table from me when they first caught it. But I've yet to get any influenza. The last influenza shot I got was when I got out of the Navy in 1980. Haven't had one since and haven't gotten influenza since either.

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

Generally, vaccine is far less of a risk than catching the disease itself, whether it was smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, or so many other diseases that scythed through populations on a regular basis.

I got smallpox, chicken pox, mumps and German measles (not the vaccination, but the actual diseases) all when I was in elementary school 1964 ~ 1970. I recovered from all of them without any vaccinations.

As for polio, of the over 800 people I've been to school with, only one (1) got polio and that was back in 1968 or 1969. Not sure whether I got a polio shot or not... don't remember.

I was required to get vaccinations when I both joined and left the military (1977 ~ 1980). I haven't had any vaccinations of any kind since then. And I haven't gotten really sick since then either. Perhaps the occasional cold with only minor fever but even that, I haven't gotten over the past 6 or 7 years since I started getting a good night's sleep.

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

i have a relative who is about as skeptical of anything that comes from the far left as you can be - she's 83 years old now. Guess who got her covid shot as soon as available? Yep. She did. Because, as she put it, she will never forget the era of row upon row of kids who had gotten polio, being in iron lungs so they could breathe.

Well, I'm 63 and even more skeptical than she is. For her age, polio was probably more devastating than when I was growing up. Only 1 out of over 800 students I knew got polio.

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

However, adherents to the pseudoscience of people like Jenny McCarthy, by not getting routine vaccinations, are producing a growing pool of available people who can become infected if exposed and spread their diseases like wildfire among those kind of people.

Hmmmm... and science also says that getting vaccinations actually weakens your body for a while until the vaccinations take effect. Causing you to be susceptible to picking up other diseases easier during the first 1~ 2 weeks after the vaccination. science also says that when your body gets used to the vaccinations, it ceases to produce other elements in your body which would otherwise have helped prevent those viruses from entering your body in the first place. So on that note, you're body actually becomes stronger because you haven't inserted other bodies into your body which can and does affect your own immune systems own responses.

As such, I'm waiting for more solid evidence which isn't available and will make my decision once that data is available.

FWIW

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk

Jul-11

We were lucky in that they did their best to isolate it quickly.  Hopefully everyone has learned their lesson about bioengineered diseases. They affect everyone.

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