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What do you think about the Biden’s new puppy and rehoming Major?   The Serious You: How Current Events Affect You

Started 12/21/21 by Showtalk; 6545 views.
selzer

From: selzer 

Dec-31

I've probably already said enough about it.  We don't know if Major had a terrible temperament, weak nerves, or just a aggressive streak that could be managed with training and leadership, mental and physical exercise, and proper socialization.  We don't know.  But first on my list for German Shepherds is Management.  

My List (in order)

Management

Leadership

Training

Exercise

Socialization. 

I harp a lot about these.  You can't do a lot about temperament if your dog has weak nerves, and is prone to bite if pressed.  I mean, if you zap a scared dog with an e-collar, you are likely to get an even more scared dog.  But if you zap a dog with good nerves but just full of himself, or just not clear about negative markers, because all of his people are softies, and he thinks "No." means "maybe, yeah... ok"  that actually may work.  But if it is a temperament deal, you cannot necessarily change the weak temperament, but you can always MANAGE the dog and situations.  Therefore, there is no excuse for your dog biting 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, people in as many days.   Someone bright enough to run the country ought to be able to manage his own dog. 

Yeah, ok, so we've heard all the excuses, the dog was a shelter dog (that the Bidens had since a young puppy).  But there is no excuse for the lack of management.  I don't give a darn if the dog bites whenever it rains, or thunders, or sees guys with ball caps, or fill in the blank.  Once you know you have a dog that WILL bite, you make that an impossibility.  Ok, if the dog bites a vet or vet tech while they are handling them, and they know the dog WILL bite -- that is a special case.  That is not the case here.  I am just trying to find ANY scenario where they get off the hook.  (I'm not a Biden-fan or anything, I guess I am trying to foresee possible arguments and head them off at the pass. 

For an aged couple who both have high stress jobs with lots of travel, lots of society parties, visitors, insanity, to bring in another German Shepherd Puppy, that is just nuts.  I don't care if they have staff to walk the puppy and clean up his dukey.  Don't matter.  They have no business getting another GSD until they are retired from the White House, and probably by then, they STILL have no business getting a breed where the normal temperament requires management, leadership, training, exercise, and socialization, or the dog will LIKELY bite people.  If the dog doesn't have leadership, he will take on the leadership position and likely bite people -- not his fault.  If the dog is not trained, probably going to bite people -- not his fault.  If the dog is not given and mental and physical outlet, may very well bite people -- maybe not his fault.   If the dog is not socialized, will probably bite people.  

I have a dog with a "proper" GSD temperament.  He sired service dogs and a police K9.  He will bite people.  So far, he is perfectly fine when I am with him.  Because he trusts me.  I might nick his nads anyway, because that boy is too big for his britches sometimes.  But somewhere between leadership and training a bond between you and your dog ought to develop.  This is why having staff or a professional trainer for the pup is not a good idea.  The dog needs to have confidence in his owners.  When he is with his owners, he should not feel the need to bite ordinary people doing their ordinary thing.  What the heck good is a bond with a professional trainer?  And yet the GSD site is filled with people so blinded by their liberal democrat nonsense that what they say to everyone else, just doesn't apply,  

They tell a college student to wait and not get a puppy until they are more settled.  They tell folks who want a "watered down" GSD to get a golden or a lab and leave the GSDs for experienced people.  

Now, Commander looks like either a West German Showline or an American Bred dog.  I only got a quick look at him, but he doesn't look working line at all.  Maybe he will not be biting people.  Maybe.  I think it is the height of irresponsibility to bring in a German Shepherd Puppy after the mess with Major.  Maybe he was too weak-nerved to handle life at the WH, but there's just no excuse for the dog to bite person after person after person -- that is on the owners.  And I wouldn't have sold them a puppy.  And I sell to dems, I sell to people getting up there in age, It is not about whether or not I like people's politics, etc, it is about what is right for this dog, right here, right now.  The Bidens are not right for ANY dog right here and right now.  They certainly are not right for an intelligent, active, working dog, bred to work with humans and to work sometimes without humans, to obey and sometimes to not obey what their human tells them, to think and solve problems. 

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Dec-31

Your first post got stuck in moderation but it’s here now. Welcome!  Thank you. 

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Dec-31

I never like to say anyone is to old for a German Shephard but at some time they should switch breeds, get an older, easier dog with a proven history or skip the dog altogether. I love German Shepherds so it’s not the dog, it’s them. That’s an excellent post. Thank you. And I apologize for the confusion.  First posts always go to the queue.  That way all the ads and spam we get never ends up on the board.

DW (GSDogwalker)

From: DW (GSDogwalker) 

Dec-31

Thank you so much for posting!  As an intro for those who don’t know you, you are a breeder and you have about a dozen German Shepherds. You breed dogs with stable temperaments that are not nervebags and you have a lot of repeat customers. Your dogs have become K9s and have titled in various sports and skills.  

Is Major a WL?  I agree with you on everything you said.  It is sad you can’t post that to a German Shepherd community.  There was no excuse for more than 1 bite.  I’ve had three dogs that bit people.  One bit me and it was my own fault and I made darned sure it never happened again.  The others were rescued dogs and could not tolerate certain things.  Once I found out what those were, they were never in a position to bite anyone again. Never!  One was a foster I gave up to a very quiet home.  The other was my rescue who went after an idiot who went after him first.  It wasn’t his fault, but I could not let him bite anyone.  So he was managed.  No more idiots were allowed near him.  At the vet he was Aced and muzzled. They don’t use Ace anymore but it was a wonder drug for a fear biter.

Anyone who rescues a German Shepherd dog should understand the concept of management.  it’s so simple. If a dog has triggers, don’t set the dog up to fail by exposing him to those triggers over and over again. Major was set up to fail and he did. Over 8 times!

Biden is supposed to be the leader of our country.  A leader should have enough competence to handle a dog. With dogs a lot of it is demeanor.  If the owner projects strength the dog knows it.

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

Dec-31

Thank you for that post.

It makes quite a lot of sense too.

A dog basically does as they're trained. And if/when they don't it's for a very good reason.

I've been around dogs all my life. Hunting blood hounds, Heintz 57 variety mix, poodles, you name it. And, I'm born in the year of the Chinese dog (1958) to boot.

I taught my mother's poodle how to differentiate between a yellow, green, blue and red ball (even though they're supposedly color blind). Taught her how to sit, roll over, shake left and right paw, and numerous other tricks. She wasn't a dog... she was extended family.

Then, in 1987, I bought my own home and wanted a dog. Nearby neighbor had pups they were giving away shortly after we moved into our new home and got one. She was the best dog I ever had... even better than my mom's poodle. And she too was an extended family member and not a dog.

But in her 14 years of life, she bit two people. One didn't even break the skin and the other was just a slight skin breakage, but both baffled me to the max because I was her trainer.

We had 3 boys, oldest two had more than 30 friends of theirs over to our house and all of them played in our front yard right around our dog. She never bit any of them. Our 3rd son also invited 12 or more friends to play in front of our house for several years and she never bit any of them either.

Then, all of a sudden, one kid was bitten but the skin was not broken. Their parents notified us, and we profusely apologized over the matter. But on further thinking/examination as to why our dog lightly bit their child without breaking the skin, we determined that a further investigation was required. More than 40 kids had played at our house and our dog bit none of them. Only this one boy. But the skin was not broken either (i.e. a mild warning). After a few days of deliberation, and talking with our 3rd son about the matter, a few strange things came to mind. We called the parents of the child that was lightly bitten and asked if we could question him directly about what happened that day that our dog bit him. End results were that the boy who got bit admitted (in front of his parents) that he was actually antagonizing our dog and not just once, but on several occasions. In the end, that kid's parents apologized to us for their kid's misbehavior!

The second person she bit was the people who lived across the street from us... since moved... this time, there was just a slight skin break, but no hospitalization required what so ever. Again, I deeply inquired into why our dog bit him and the following was discovered.

He walked up to our front door and rang our door bell (but it happened to be when we were not at home). He wanted to tell us something but because we were not at home, he returned to his home across the street. Our dog was on a leash and could not reach our front door but she barked as he approached as he's somebody she didn't know. He too, later admitted that he was afraid of dogs. Had he just left our front door and walked back to his own house across the street... nothing would have happened. He didn't have to come near our dog but because he hated dogs he instead of just leaving like he should have, he kicked his foot at our dog and that's when she bit him. He could have walked around her without being bitten but approached her directly and kicked at her!

That too was resolved quickly, he apologized... but getting back to the topic of this thread... dog's usually have a reason to bite or... if they bite randomly, they're not properly trained.

I never trained our dog to bite, but she... in her own loving, happily playing with 32 or more friends of our kids determined that biting was necessary on those two occasions, and I never scolded her for it because I don't think her judgement was wrong.

FWIW

  • Edited December 31, 2021 1:45 pm  by  WALTER784
WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

Dec-31

I don't think the age of either the owner or the age of the dog needs to be called into play what so ever.

Dogs of all species will love their owners if loved in reciprocity. And if the dog loves their owner, they will do as their owner instructs them.

And that regardless of age of owner or dog or species of the dog!

Either you're the alpha male or you're not! And note... alpha male doesn't necessarily mean the man of the house... but the one the dog respects more!

FWIW

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

Dec-31

A lot of attention seems to be put on rescues... but is that really an important topic or is that just something others have brought up that make people tend to think twice about rescues?

Personally, rescues are there to help people... not hurt them... so why do we really hear so much about rescues? Are rescues really the issue or are some purposefully attempting to make it look like rescues are the bad dogs?

A rescue dog should be well trained. If they weren't, then is it the rescue dog's fault? Or perhaps is it the fault of the rescue trainer?

Input from others on what I just said is very welcome!

FWIW

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Dec-31

Age matters with large bred intense dogs like GSDs because they must have strong leaders and handlers.  When someone is debilitated due to age related conditions they aren’t good trainers or handlers.  They may be able to deal with a different breed just fine.

selzer

From: selzer 

Dec-31

Even the Ohio Revised Code, differentiates between a bite that is with provocation, and one that is not.  You're right, a bite that does not break the skin is usually a form of communication.  

As for a dog biting a guy on your property that kicked at him.  Well, I think that falls into management.  In this sue-happy society, I would never leave an animal in a position where the general public can walk up to it and kick it.  A dog that is tethered is often guarding whatever it is tethered to.  That bite was nothing wrong with the dog at all.  And that is not what we are talking about with the Bidens.  If you were there, if a guy tried to kick your dog, it may or may not have chosen that action.  Either way, I would not fault the dog.  

What was the neighbor thinking to do that to your dog when you were obviously not home?  What a weirdo.  

Some of my dogs are outside when I am not home, in kennels, some of those kennels are in my front yard.  Right now Bear (almost 12) and her latest pup (almost 4) share a large kennel surrounding the front and side of my house.  You can get to the front door if you open a gate.  There is another gate to their kennel and to the other kennel from that point.  So far no one has breached the front gate to get to my front door.    I hope that if someone is so stupid as to put their hand through the fencing to get themselves bit, the court system in this country will not put down my dogs or hold me financially responsible for damages.  I just don't see that happening with a dog simply tethered in a front yard.  I worry about dogs being put down.  

selzer

From: selzer 

Dec-31

Well, in theory, and when a rescue works well, a dog is rescued from being abandoned due to death or financial hardship, or even an abusive situation, fostered by caring, knowledgeable people, rehabilitated if necessary, and then matched to a family that is properly vetted.  

Unfortunately, there are no requirements to being called a rescue.  Some rescues just grab as many young adoptable dogs as they can and turn them around as quickly as they can for profit.  Other rescues fall into hoarding where they cannot find anyone who should be the owner of any of their dogs, and become overwhelmed and the dogs end up suffering.  Many rescues are people with lots of heart but little knowledge, they do not know how to evaluate a dog or match a dog to the people.  

There is also this, and that is when people have a dog that they failed with, in order to drop them in a shelter, they either cannot disclose aggressive issues or the shelter will not accept the dog, or the shelter will immediately euthanize the dog because they cannot take the risk of someone being bitten.  So dogs get dropped off without information, and often the shelter environment and even if there is any time at all in a foster home, there is not enough for the dog to become relaxed and show the behaviors that got him dumped in the first place.  But after a month or a couple of months in the new home, the dog begins to display the behaviors, and sometimes the consequences are dire.

And then there is the fact that humans want to blame something or something, rather than entertain the idea that they didn't do the right things for this animal this time.  Some start out with a rescue out of the kindness of their hearts and with pity treat the dog a certain way because of what the dog has been through.  Dogs live in the moment.  We need to treat dogs like they haven't been through anything, like they are here, right now, and we need to deal with good and bad behavior without respect to the background.  But people aren't like that.  I think too many folks are more likely to say, "Oh you poor thing," and allow way too many behaviors to ride.  So when they end up with an unmanageable dog, they are likely to blame the dog or the background of the dog, rather than their management of the situation.  

At the end of the day many rescues do not fare well, sometimes because of the rescue organization, and sometimes not because of the rescue organization.  But the new owners, their family, their friends, their acquainances, are all going to be affected by the negative experience.  Some of these will want to get their new dog as a puppy with a "clean slate."  

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