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What do you think about the Biden’s new puppy and rehoming Major?   The Serious You: How Current Events Affect You

Started 12/21/21 by Showtalk; 6573 views.
WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

12/31/21

Thank you for that post.

It makes quite a lot of sense too.

A dog basically does as they're trained. And if/when they don't it's for a very good reason.

I've been around dogs all my life. Hunting blood hounds, Heintz 57 variety mix, poodles, you name it. And, I'm born in the year of the Chinese dog (1958) to boot.

I taught my mother's poodle how to differentiate between a yellow, green, blue and red ball (even though they're supposedly color blind). Taught her how to sit, roll over, shake left and right paw, and numerous other tricks. She wasn't a dog... she was extended family.

Then, in 1987, I bought my own home and wanted a dog. Nearby neighbor had pups they were giving away shortly after we moved into our new home and got one. She was the best dog I ever had... even better than my mom's poodle. And she too was an extended family member and not a dog.

But in her 14 years of life, she bit two people. One didn't even break the skin and the other was just a slight skin breakage, but both baffled me to the max because I was her trainer.

We had 3 boys, oldest two had more than 30 friends of theirs over to our house and all of them played in our front yard right around our dog. She never bit any of them. Our 3rd son also invited 12 or more friends to play in front of our house for several years and she never bit any of them either.

Then, all of a sudden, one kid was bitten but the skin was not broken. Their parents notified us, and we profusely apologized over the matter. But on further thinking/examination as to why our dog lightly bit their child without breaking the skin, we determined that a further investigation was required. More than 40 kids had played at our house and our dog bit none of them. Only this one boy. But the skin was not broken either (i.e. a mild warning). After a few days of deliberation, and talking with our 3rd son about the matter, a few strange things came to mind. We called the parents of the child that was lightly bitten and asked if we could question him directly about what happened that day that our dog bit him. End results were that the boy who got bit admitted (in front of his parents) that he was actually antagonizing our dog and not just once, but on several occasions. In the end, that kid's parents apologized to us for their kid's misbehavior!

The second person she bit was the people who lived across the street from us... since moved... this time, there was just a slight skin break, but no hospitalization required what so ever. Again, I deeply inquired into why our dog bit him and the following was discovered.

He walked up to our front door and rang our door bell (but it happened to be when we were not at home). He wanted to tell us something but because we were not at home, he returned to his home across the street. Our dog was on a leash and could not reach our front door but she barked as he approached as he's somebody she didn't know. He too, later admitted that he was afraid of dogs. Had he just left our front door and walked back to his own house across the street... nothing would have happened. He didn't have to come near our dog but because he hated dogs he instead of just leaving like he should have, he kicked his foot at our dog and that's when she bit him. He could have walked around her without being bitten but approached her directly and kicked at her!

That too was resolved quickly, he apologized... but getting back to the topic of this thread... dog's usually have a reason to bite or... if they bite randomly, they're not properly trained.

I never trained our dog to bite, but she... in her own loving, happily playing with 32 or more friends of our kids determined that biting was necessary on those two occasions, and I never scolded her for it because I don't think her judgement was wrong.

FWIW

  • Edited December 31, 2021 1:45 pm  by  WALTER784
WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

12/31/21

I don't think the age of either the owner or the age of the dog needs to be called into play what so ever.

Dogs of all species will love their owners if loved in reciprocity. And if the dog loves their owner, they will do as their owner instructs them.

And that regardless of age of owner or dog or species of the dog!

Either you're the alpha male or you're not! And note... alpha male doesn't necessarily mean the man of the house... but the one the dog respects more!

FWIW

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

12/31/21

A lot of attention seems to be put on rescues... but is that really an important topic or is that just something others have brought up that make people tend to think twice about rescues?

Personally, rescues are there to help people... not hurt them... so why do we really hear so much about rescues? Are rescues really the issue or are some purposefully attempting to make it look like rescues are the bad dogs?

A rescue dog should be well trained. If they weren't, then is it the rescue dog's fault? Or perhaps is it the fault of the rescue trainer?

Input from others on what I just said is very welcome!

FWIW

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Dec-31

Age matters with large bred intense dogs like GSDs because they must have strong leaders and handlers.  When someone is debilitated due to age related conditions they aren’t good trainers or handlers.  They may be able to deal with a different breed just fine.

selzer

From: selzer 

Dec-31

Even the Ohio Revised Code, differentiates between a bite that is with provocation, and one that is not.  You're right, a bite that does not break the skin is usually a form of communication.  

As for a dog biting a guy on your property that kicked at him.  Well, I think that falls into management.  In this sue-happy society, I would never leave an animal in a position where the general public can walk up to it and kick it.  A dog that is tethered is often guarding whatever it is tethered to.  That bite was nothing wrong with the dog at all.  And that is not what we are talking about with the Bidens.  If you were there, if a guy tried to kick your dog, it may or may not have chosen that action.  Either way, I would not fault the dog.  

What was the neighbor thinking to do that to your dog when you were obviously not home?  What a weirdo.  

Some of my dogs are outside when I am not home, in kennels, some of those kennels are in my front yard.  Right now Bear (almost 12) and her latest pup (almost 4) share a large kennel surrounding the front and side of my house.  You can get to the front door if you open a gate.  There is another gate to their kennel and to the other kennel from that point.  So far no one has breached the front gate to get to my front door.    I hope that if someone is so stupid as to put their hand through the fencing to get themselves bit, the court system in this country will not put down my dogs or hold me financially responsible for damages.  I just don't see that happening with a dog simply tethered in a front yard.  I worry about dogs being put down.  

selzer

From: selzer 

Dec-31

Well, in theory, and when a rescue works well, a dog is rescued from being abandoned due to death or financial hardship, or even an abusive situation, fostered by caring, knowledgeable people, rehabilitated if necessary, and then matched to a family that is properly vetted.  

Unfortunately, there are no requirements to being called a rescue.  Some rescues just grab as many young adoptable dogs as they can and turn them around as quickly as they can for profit.  Other rescues fall into hoarding where they cannot find anyone who should be the owner of any of their dogs, and become overwhelmed and the dogs end up suffering.  Many rescues are people with lots of heart but little knowledge, they do not know how to evaluate a dog or match a dog to the people.  

There is also this, and that is when people have a dog that they failed with, in order to drop them in a shelter, they either cannot disclose aggressive issues or the shelter will not accept the dog, or the shelter will immediately euthanize the dog because they cannot take the risk of someone being bitten.  So dogs get dropped off without information, and often the shelter environment and even if there is any time at all in a foster home, there is not enough for the dog to become relaxed and show the behaviors that got him dumped in the first place.  But after a month or a couple of months in the new home, the dog begins to display the behaviors, and sometimes the consequences are dire.

And then there is the fact that humans want to blame something or something, rather than entertain the idea that they didn't do the right things for this animal this time.  Some start out with a rescue out of the kindness of their hearts and with pity treat the dog a certain way because of what the dog has been through.  Dogs live in the moment.  We need to treat dogs like they haven't been through anything, like they are here, right now, and we need to deal with good and bad behavior without respect to the background.  But people aren't like that.  I think too many folks are more likely to say, "Oh you poor thing," and allow way too many behaviors to ride.  So when they end up with an unmanageable dog, they are likely to blame the dog or the background of the dog, rather than their management of the situation.  

At the end of the day many rescues do not fare well, sometimes because of the rescue organization, and sometimes not because of the rescue organization.  But the new owners, their family, their friends, their acquainances, are all going to be affected by the negative experience.  Some of these will want to get their new dog as a puppy with a "clean slate."  

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Dec-31

Someone might give up a good, trained, stable  German Shpherd to a rescue, but they wouldn’t just dump them in a shelter.  I’m leery of shelter dogs.

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

Dec-31

selzer said...

As for a dog biting a guy on your property that kicked at him.  Well, I think that falls into management.  In this sue-happy society, I would never leave an animal in a position where the general public can walk up to it and kick it.  A dog that is tethered is often guarding whatever it is tethered to.  That bite was nothing wrong with the dog at all.  And that is not what we are talking about with the Bidens.  If you were there, if a guy tried to kick your dog, it may or may not have chosen that action.  Either way, I would not fault the dog. 

I didn't fault our dog at all. Our dog was tethered such that there as at least 8' ~ 10' between the end of the tether and our front door. (i.e. He had to walk over to where our dog was tethered for our dog to be able to bite him.) Had he just rang the doorbell and walked away back out to the street, our dog would not have been able to bite him. But he purposefully moved closer to our dog and then kicked at her.

I didn't apologize to him. I just asked him how our dog could have bit him if he didn't walk up to our dog because our dog cannot reach the front door. And that's when he said that he kicked at our dog because he hates dogs. I guess he hates them even more now, but I think he'll think twice before ever attempting to kick a dog again. He moved away a few years later and I've not seen him since... good riddance. 

selzer said...

What was the neighbor thinking to do that to your dog when you were obviously not home?  What a weirdo.  

I have no idea, but as I said above, he moved away a few years later.

At least he didn't report it to the police and that was the last I heard of him. 

FWIW

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

Dec-31

It's all really sad for the owners, the shelters where the pets are kept and even more so for the pets themselves.

Moved from a home that neglected the dog to a shelter that doesn't properly care for the dog and just feeds them until somebody wants to take them home... if they can ever find anybody.

Dogs just basically want love and affection from somebody who they can love back and express their affection to as well.

If only dogs could talk a lot of the problems you mentioned could easily be overcome.

My dog actually talked to me. She had four things she would say to me.

1) I need food or water.

2) I need to go for a walk. She would pee in our yard, but would wait for us to take her for a walk before she pooped.

3) I'm happy you're home... pet me.

And this one took a while to figure out, but...

4) Somebody came up to our house while nobody was at home.

Her barks, whines and body motion spoke volumes to me. Sadly, neither my wife nor our 3 kids could figure that out.

FWIW

selzer

From: selzer 

Jan-1

The thing is, a lot of rescues will not take dogs from owners.  They take them only from shelters.  I would think that trying to have a reputable breed-specific rescue to help find your dog a new home would be more responsible, but a lot of rescues don't take owner turn-ins, and shelters can kill owner turn-ins before you drive out of the parking lot.  

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