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Toramori - thank you! I am hopeful.   Swing Instructions, Tips, etc.

Started Jul-8 by BOGEYSBGONE; 358 views.



Thank you Toramori....and the "straighten your arm at the ball" tip.  I have worked it into my shitty swing and gotten some really hopeful results.   I test-drove the new swing yesterday and had good results maybe.   I had "it" for a little while and then lost "it" again - but I am excited.  Wanted to say thanks to everyone for their help.

The Good:   using a low/no stress swing - I was basically taking a 1/2 to 3/4 swing at about 50% effort - almost zero stress on the body and low/no stress in the hands. Here's what I worked on:

1) I only tried to make a 1/2 to 3/4 swing at about 50% effort or less.

2) I tried to keep my hands (from elbow down to fingertips) relaxed..

3) I focused on holding/creating/maintaining the 90* angle between my trailing right wrist and the shaft.  My primary focus overall was to try to "control" the creation/retention of the angle and release it later in the swing - and make it repeatable.   I tried to hold the angle until about hip high on the downswing - then straighten my arm/"shove my palm" towards the ball down the target line.

If you think of the angle as a "V" created by my right trailing wrist and the club shaft - I was able (at least for a few holes) to wait for the V to drop around hip high on the downswing= before I started to affirmatively "shove my palm"/straighten my arm at the ball.  And it was awesome.

Preliminary Results:  I hit a bunch of balls my old distances of 210-215 carry w/driver. - and it was so much easier.  But it felt like I was leaving so much "energy" on the table b/c I didn't feel any of the typical things that I associate with power.  Even still at 50% - I had the longest drive of 245 total yards and several around 220 - which is decent for me...and again with apparently less actually effort.   But my irons and woods ALSO were similarly affected. 

The BAD:  At the end of the day I suppose I've never learned how to hold the angle long enough.   Why?   Because as confident as I was that I had had "it" with a 1/2 swing - I got stupid and tried to give it a full/longer swing on holes 6, 7 and 8.....disaster.   Basically I went back to throwing away the angle from the top....and I got my previous shitty distances again.  For some reason I lost the angle and the timing when I lengthen the swing.

I will continue to work on it - but wanted to say thanks to all.  It sure was fun to hit the ball again - and so easily.  


HAX (CVeratanictu)

From: HAX (CVeratanictu)


Good stuff Robb.  Love reading the progress. Stay with it.  I am going to try and sneak out and play 9 next week and see what happens.





HAX (CVeratanictu) said...


Good stuff Robb.  Love reading the progress. Stay with it.  I am going to try and sneak out and play 9 next week and see what happens.



It ain't as cool as a kidney but I'll take it!  

This game is so weird - the harder you try, the harder it gets.  The easier you try the easier it gets.....so I'm trying not to try.   If I can commit to 1/2 swing at 50% and play for 9 holes or more...I have hope!




I'm pretty sure Monte S. I right when he says you can't try to to hold the angle with any success.  Its just not something that works as a primary goal.

The last two times I played I did what he suggests in the video Dave posted. I reach back and set my hands without any effort to turn. Then try as hard as I can to "throw away" the angle without using any effort with my legs, hips or shoulders. 

When I do it, the ball goes much farther and dead straight.

As soon as I let my body take over all he'll breaks loose. My distance goes to shit and so does my direction. 

As Dave said, this works!!

No Turn Cast Swing Drill

Before you tell me I have lost my mind, try one or both parts of the drill. Visit my blog montescheinblum.wordpress.com




I've tried this drill and love it to get the shoulder turn - been following Monte for years.   But the no-cast part  is where I require "effort" and the effort is where my return to impact (solid contact) goes haywire...and apparently I throw away my angle there too.   There are a 1000 ways to get to the same place in golf - just have to try find one that resonates with you.   So for I've found the Toramori method.

As for holding the angle - I may not be explaining what is actually happening - but I am confident that that is how I've thrown a baseball or hit a winner in tennis - letting the ball/racquet/club bend my wrist (and fingers) "pull back" and the it's like a whip.  I haven't really let the club do that, and perhaps it's tension in my previous swing negated the ability for me to feel the weight on the shaft and pull my hand/wrist/fingers back.  Whatever....when I slow down the swing - I feel it more.  And Without question when I tried to "control the angle" I was able to do it repeatedly with repeatedly same results.     So I'm gonna keep that part of the equation for now.  :)    For now it's a feeling of "wait wait wait wait wait for the hands to drop down to below your shoulder now shove it!"    LOL    But add more shoulder turn (crap); coil more (crap); feel like you're hitting a left handed backhand (crap).

Baby steps...I play tomorrow Friday and sunday now.  Plenty of time.



 For now it's a feeling of "wait wait wait wait wait for the hands to drop down to below your shoulder now shove it!"    LOL    But add more shoulder turn (crap); coil more (crap); feel like you're hitting a left handed backhand (crap).

Okay, now it makes sense.

You aren't tall enough to do any of that. If your hands are above you shoulders, or you try to "add shoulder turn" or "coil more," you are just getting in a tall person's top of swing position.

It's taken me almost 60 years to understand that at 5'8" I can't do those things and play well, and you're shorter than I am.

I do know that what you are trying to do will work okay, because that's how I played my best golf in my 40s.

Get to the top, keep my back to the target like Freddy Couples, start the downswing by swinging my hands down and away from the target, then sling the clubhead at the ball.

At age 72, and not practicing 4 or 5 times a week, that's just too complicated, so not letting my hands get above my shoulders is easier, and just as effective.

One HUGE thing I finally got through my head after my brother browbeat me about it for several years, is that standing too far away from the ball exacerbates all my errors. I thought I was moving closer to the ball, but now I try to have the butt of the club almost touching my left thigh.  From there, I pretty much can't hit my preferred pull hook.

After I finally started working on that, I noticed that most pros have their hands under their chin at address, and almost no amateurs are anywhere near that close to the ball.

Jack Grout, who taught Nicklaus, once said, "In 40 years of teaching I never saw anyone who stood too close to the ball."




Holy crap - you're like GolfYoda!    Nice.   I'm 5'8" on a good day.   I'm basically trying to go back how I generate power and speed - which is to make a throwing motion.   

Do you have video of people you copy at 5'8".

I have always stood close to the ball - and my instructors let me.   LOL    I like to feel steep b/c it feels fast....I was just releasing the angle too soon I guess.   And I feel like I have control over where I can release it.   As far as hitting - I would rather learn to hit a draw (as an example) from changing the swing path with my hands and arms, rather than with my setup.   Hard to explain but if it looks odd - it will be odd.   :)  

Like you - my main swing cues that work are

1) "FEEL like you are pausing at the top" which allows my momentum to collect and so I can post my weight over my left leg; and I start with a lot of momentum.

2) keep my back to the target as long as I can - then sling the club past my body.   I played that way for years with no other lessons.  Lessons helped to probably screw up something that needed to be tweaked - but not reengineered - and I played "golf swing" for about 5 years....got so far down a rabbit hole.  Ugh

Now I want to add 3) time the release a little later.

Thanks for your insights GolfYoda!!! It helps.   



From: garyt1957gt


  That's what I've heard from multiple sources, you can't "try" to hold the angle. But hey if it works and isn't a one and done, keep doing it.

Models for short people?  Sergio. Nobody gets more lag than him and it doesn't look like he's holding the angle.

There aren't many short pros anymore so Hogan is good.

One of my biggest issues with instruction is that it's driven by really good players. So their feels are completely wrong for "normal" players.

Especially players who started later in life.

Kids have no ego about bad shots so finding the "slot" isn't so daunting. I watch them and it doesn't take long before they realize that dropping the club behind them and slinging it from inside makes ball go far.

Which is why they all fight a hook when they grow up.

So their best feel involves turning their body HARD to keep the hook at bay.

Re. hitting a draw, about 20 years ago I was losing distance and decided to learn to hook it for more distance. These days I am almost unable to hit a fade on purpose. I can usually hit it straight if I try real hard.

The draw is fine asong as its not a pull.

Robb, I have a question. As a tennis player, have you ever tried hitting a topspin volley with a driver?

Also what did you think about when you hit one with a racquet? 

The physical action is really similar to a good golf swing but no one goes through these mental gymnastics trying to hit the tennis ball. They can't,  because it's moving