Hammer Dog (jaime59)

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HCQ works   Futility Folder:Politics

Started Aug-6 by Hammer Dog (jaime59); 736 views.
Hammer Dog (jaime59)
Host

When given in the early stages of the disease.  At least that’s what the preponderance of evidence shows.  The numerous “less than gold standard” studies outweigh the flawed randomized control study.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/08/04/an_effective_covid_treatment_the_media_continues_to_besmirch_143875.html

hypertonic

From: hypertonic

Aug-6

You can do a million non RCTs - they're worth nothing.  And RCTs have been done for early stage treatment as well as pre and post-exposure prophylaxis.   NADA.   But you still keep flogging that horse.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1009/5872589

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

"A second large PEP trial has come up empty as well, its leader tells Science. Carried out in Barcelona, Spain, that study randomized more than 2300 people exposed to the virus to either hydroxychloroquine or the usual care. There was no significant difference between the number of people in each group who developed COVID-19, says Oriol Mitjà of the Germans Trias i Pujol University Hospital. Mitjà says he has submitted the results for publication."

Hammer Dog (jaime59)
Host

You can do a million non RCTs - they're worth nothing.  And RCTs have been done for early stage treatment as well as pre and post-exposure prophylaxis.   NADA.   But you still keep flogging that horse.

 

 

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1009/5872589 Did not use zinc or Azithromycin

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638  Did not use zinc or Azithromycin and did not document that the people treated even had COVID
We enrolled adults who had household or occupational exposure to someone with confirmed Covid-19 at a distance of less than 6 ft for more than 10 minutes while wearing neither a face mask nor an eye shield (high-risk exposure) or while wearing a face mask but no eye shield (moderate-risk exposure). Within 4 days after exposure, we randomly assigned participants to receive either placebo or hydroxychloroquine (800 mg once, followed by 600 mg in 6 to 8 hours, then 600 mg daily for 4 additional days). The primary outcome was the incidence of either laboratory-confirmed Covid-19 or illness compatible with Covid-19 within 14 days.
 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19  See above

 

 

flatstik (gregf82)

From: flatstik (gregf82)

Aug-6

+1

Doctors don't know exactly how anesthesia works either - they just know that it does.  How is that any different?

Hammer Dog (jaime59)
Host

I don't know if it works or not.  I do know that there are plenty of studies that show it helps and the studies that debunk it seem as if they were clearly designed to do so.

flatstik (gregf82)

From: flatstik (gregf82)

Aug-6

Yep - and my point was that some things are effective - anesthesia - and we don't really know why, but they just are.  Would the HCQ critics argue to stop using anesthesia because there are no RCT 's to explain why it works?

hypertonic

From: hypertonic

Aug-6

flatstik (gregf82) said:

Would the HCQ critics argue to stop using anesthesia because there are no RCT 's to explain why it works?

There is a huge body of science behind anesthesia and nociception including RCTs.  HOW it works is not the goal of an RCT, efficacy and safety are.

hypertonic

From: hypertonic

Aug-6

Ah, yes, the magical zinc.  The compound that is also NOT being used by many of the trials you point to as positive outcomes.

These is absolutely no biological basis for a positive effect with HCQ ONLY if ZN or macrolides are needed.   None.  You would expect at least some effect.  It's not seen. 

And Azithromycin has been tried in RCT with HCQ.  Epic fail.  https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014 

If it works it works. No need to study it to death.
Hammer Dog (jaime59)
Host

That’s a more germane study, but it still involves hospitalized patients.

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